The process to self-publish a book has gotten so easy with technology and you can be a successful writer if you know how to do it. Best selling author Jeff Goins shows us how to become a successful author just like he has become.
How Jeff Goins Makes Money
Jeff is a speaker, a writer, and a teacher of online courses and programs. He helps creative people succeed through his work and while teaching others.
Jeff got started with a $2.99 ebook and sold about 1500 copies in a week in 2012. That same year his first child was born. Working for a non-profit at the time, Jeff was interested in trying something new.
What Jeff Did Before Being a Successful Writer
Jeff worked for a non-profit organization as a marketing director that he sort of fell into. He was hired as a copywriter, then became manager, and then took over as director.
He once toured with a band and was a Spanish major in college. At the time, he was helping other people share their stories while doing international service projects to raise money.
Jeff realized he had ideas and stories that he wanted to share, so he started a blog, and it grew quickly. Then came some ebooks, online courses, events, and masterminds that he created.
Most people assume everyone goes to college to make money, so he and his siblings did the same thing. However, Jeff intended to go to college and get a job afterward, not necessarily with the intent to make a lot of money.
Many people have the notion that if they go to college, then the world owes them a job and then becomes disappointed as a result because that is not the case. Jeff studied Spanish and Religion because he was interested in religion.
He chose Spanish because he wanted to study abroad in Spain. He thought about maybe being a missionary in a Spanish speaking country but ended up with a non-profit mission group. He thought it would be fun as most things in his life.
Jeff’s whole life, he was told he could not be a writer and make money. He has always been a creative person. He has acted, joined a band, written songs, and poems, and drawn Garfield comics. He just never knew he could do that all and make a living.
Jeff’s first book was self-published on E-junkie. He more describes it as a 10,000-word pdf, but he made a few thousand dollars from it. He was sort of embarrassed by the ebook, so he took it down.
He later republished it as a book called You Are a Writer (So Start Acting Like One). This book was his story of wanting to be a writer, becoming one, and what he learned along the way about building an audience, building a platform, finding your voice, getting noticed, and eventually getting paid. 
He self-published and sold about 10,000 copies in six months. At the end of the book, Jeff included his email, and people began contacting him and asking him to teach them the things that he talked about in his book.
Because of this, he launched his first online course, and a few months later traditionally published another book. Jeff has been writing books and teaching online courses ever since.
Dustin says he is not a creative person but has written and self-published four books. It was a lot of fun for him, but it was a struggle.
How to be a Successful Writer Without Being Creative
Jeff thinks everyone is creative in everyday life as we are making things all day. The act of making a podcast is creative, by definition. He believes when people say they are not creative, they think they are not artistic how they understand typical artists.
Even by having children, you have created life, and life itself is creative. The necessary process of growth, things coming together, and things falling apart and then creating new things is the creative journey.
Jeff says that step one is to recognize that everything we make and do in some respect has never been done before; therefore, it is creative. We also realize that not everyone is creative in the same way.
Jeff is a different type of creative than Dustin and Picasso or any number of other great artists.
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To live a good life, you have to make things and create things. Jeff believes there has never been a better time to harness natural creativity and share it with the world because we have an opportunity to connect directly to the audience that needs our work.
If you work for yourself and are successfully unemployed, having some sort of business you are running that you created is a very creative act whether you think of yourself as an entrepreneur, artist, musician, or not.
Jeff points out Dustin’s guitar hanging behind him and reminds Dustin that he is, in fact, creative. Whatever you do, the things you make, it is easier than ever to find and connect with people who need those things from you.
Second, figure out what you want to make, and step three is asking who this is for and how you connect with them. The Internet is an efficient and affordable way to find and connect with people who need your work.
You could connect through a podcast, a blog, or an article. When building an audience or platform, there is a misunderstanding that if you want to make something and make money off of it, you have to go and find people who need that thing.
Dustin agrees that we are all creating. He is not creative; it’s much easier for him to see something that someone else is doing and copying that. That gives him a leg up because if Dustin has to sit down and create something new, he can do it quickly.
He can eventually, but his brain takes 100x longer to get there than other people. Jeff sees this as iteration, taking something that someone else has created and adding your take to it or making it better.
A lot of the world’s greatest artists were not original. They took somebody else’s idea and did it better or differently, like Walt Disney, Michelangelo, and Twyla Tharp. Jeffs says that all great creation is sometimes recreation.
Where to Start Writing A Book
According to Stephen King, if you want to be a writer, you have to read a lot and write a lot. You have to absorb a lot of good writing and study the craft, then write it.
Jeff thinks many people set out to be original, and that is the worst way to start. The same goes for a business if it is an original concept, assuming no one has ever done it before.
What you should be doing is paying attention to what’s working in the current markets, seeing what people have already done, and trying to do it better or differently.
Writing is similar. Jeff says to pay attention to the books you enjoy reading, observe what the writers do that you like, and start copying them. Jeff thinks writers begin as thieves and quotes Picasso, “good artists copy, great artists steal.”
Jeff says to learn, then find your style and your voice. Pay attention to the books and authors you like and mimic some of the things they are doing. Jeff compares the learning process to learning a martial art.
You would understand the dojo’s fundamentals before even daring to try to figure out your style.
He advises not writing a book first but writing an article, blog post, or an Instagram caption. Start small and begin learning how to communicate your ideas.
If you have an idea and the shortest way to contain it is with a book, then write a book. Figure out the smallest form of writing that includes your message and do that.
Jeff doesn’t believe that everyone should write a book. People say writing a book will build your platform, give you authority, or be a great business card.
No reader wants to pick up a book and think of it as a business card. That makes for, often, not a good book, according to Jeff. A business card is a better way to go over a business card book. Jeffs is a purist when it comes to books. \
He believes in good books and that we don’t need any more bad books in the world.
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That said, if you have such a big idea and you have written the article or blog post and put it on a podcast, and there is still more to say, then maybe write a book.
Or if there is an audience interest and can contain the whole idea inside and show them how to do something, then perhaps write a book.
Jeff thinks all good books begin with big ideas, and the best way to write a bad book is to start with a good idea. Good ideas don’t make good books; good books start with interesting ideas.
What Topics Have Been Used
You want to know who has talked about this before or what books are out there on this topic. There should be some. Otherwise, you shouldn’t write the book because there is probably no interest in it, Jeff says.
If what you want to say has already been said, you probably don’t need to repeat it. But if you can add something to it, or take what someone else has done and do it better, then do. In marketing, “same but different” is used often.
So, read a lot of books in your industry to know what is already out there.
Jeff says in all great books, they have this theme in common. Writing a book with “what everyone thinks is X but what’s true is Y.” Some big ideas that change the way people thought about the genre category is another good way to begin a book idea.
Think carefully about the first or the next book you write and ask yourself what you want to say. Ask what already exists and whether you disagree or agree or can add to it in some way.
Jeff believes we pay attention to people not because their ideas are right, but because they are interesting. Something that is counterintuitive, surprising, or takes something we take for granted, attacks it, and subverts it in some way is how some people write interesting books.
If it doesn’t change the way people think, then why even write the book.
There are a lot of general books, like business cards. Dustin has seen them a lot on amazon. He notices there are 1-star reviews on these types of books from people stating that the author is just this guy trying to get us to buy his courses.
As a writer, Dustin wants his books to stand alone and not like general books like those. You don’t want to be salesy. You want the reader to be interested in what you have to say without feeling forced to buy your additional products.
Outlining Importance For Writing A Book
Jeff explains the concept that all models are wrong, and all models are useful. All of the frameworks are wrong, but help get in the flow. Jeff says there are two basic structures:
#1: The Modular Structure
The modular structure treats each chapter as almost an independent piece of a larger whole or stand-alone articles. Tim Farris is an example of who writes like this. Someone told Farris when he writes a book, writes every chapter as a stand-alone article.
This concept is very different from that of a book like the Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell, a narrative arc format.
#2: The Narrative Arc
This type works like a novel or a story that could be nonfiction or fiction. Jeff describes how it would be like missing 20 minutes of a movie if you enter the book in the middle. It won’t make sense.
Each part builds on the other, and then there is some final big payoff. Malcolm Gladwell writes this way because he enjoys reading spy novels. Reading Outliers is like reading a detective series.
He structures his self-help and business models like spy novels. They are suspenseful and interesting. He uses the narrative structure but uses ideas as a sort of character.
Figure out which structure will serve your audience best and convey your idea best. Whatever is most appropriate for a book or audience is Jeff’s advice. Then when you outline it, there becomes a series of questions. Outliers is about how people succeed.
The book describes two things: opportunity and practice. It has two parts, so for the opportunity, they would be born at the right place and time and be exposed to certain things; practice would be networking and knowing the right people and being a part of a specific community.
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As you answer the questions, you are finding new questions, and essentially each question becomes its chapter. Jeff views nonfiction books as an answer to a question, and each chapter is an answer to a smaller question underneath the larger question. So once you answer all the questions, the book is done.
When Dustin wrote in the past, he has found an outcome that the reader should be getting to. They will have questions along the way, and if you can project and figure out the questions they may be asking, you will help the reader understand the content better.
He sees the difference in the two books mentioned earlier. Gladwell leaves you wanting more, like a cliffhanger. Dustin finds that his style is just wanting to say what it is he wants to share, following Tim Farris’ style.
As he was writing his first ebook on investing in rental properties, he felt it kept getting longer and longer, and soon he realized it was not going to be an ebook any longer.
Once he finished, the structure was “do XYZ” for his audience. It was academic and straightforward. At the time, Dustin asked himself what books he likes to read. He enjoyed Rich Dad Poor Dad because many stories helped him understand what the outcome is.
The Richest Man in Babylon had great stories about living in principle as well as Tim Farris’s books. Tim’s books start with a random story and then later ties it in with the central concept.
So Dustin began doing that with the rewrite of his book. He would start with an off the wall story in each chapter and then tie it in.
What to Do When You Nail Down Your Writing Style
Jeff recommends using the book and the podcast called The Story Grid by Shawn Coyne, which is about how to tell compelling stories. It focuses on the craft of fiction and different kinds of books and conventions associated with them.
One thing Shawn describes is figuring out what kind of book it is. Dustin’s book is a “how-to” book. The question is literally how to invest in rental properties and several other questions such as how much capital you need and where to invest.
It is written in some sequence or logical order when you answer the questions or be written out in steps.
To understand the genre, try to begin to see what conventions they use. Anecdotes, or detailed short stories, that support the overall idea of the book.
Then help the reader get to the point of understanding. There are a lot of different genres to consider.
Jeff says a lot of people don’t know, but you can pick up any book, turn to the first page, and it will tell you what kind of book it is you are reading. Usually, the book has two or three categories.
Jeff said Dustin doesn’t have to make his book academic like Gladwell and that he can just talk about his success in real estate and what he understands about it. He also would suggest citing a few people.
It could be something that you learned how to do and show others how to do it. Jeff says you can borrow and steal the tools that work well with the genre you choose.
Shawn Coyne calls them conventions or something that always works inside a specific genre. You can’t tell a science fiction story without having some creature come to earth from another planet.
It happens every time, so you have to use it if you write science fiction, for example. Otherwise, the reader may not get it or even understand why they don’t get it. T
here are rules to every type of book, and you can break one or two, but if you break all the rules, it will no longer be considered the kind of book you started with.
How To Choose A Title
Jeff thinks that every book starts with an idea, so people sometimes begin with a working title that almost always changes. Most books are a journey or an adventure for Jeff.
He wanted to write a book about making a living as a creative person. Most people were told you could not make a living this way. Jeff recalls touring with a band after college, and they had so little money that they would stay in people’s homes.
This was great, and they were very generous. Some were trailer homes, and some were mansions. He remembers people saying that he is doing this now because when he gets older, he will have to get a real job. And he agreed.
Maybe he would plan to do it for a year and move on. A lot of people view artistry this way. Eventually, he stumbled into being a full-time writer and creative entrepreneur. He soon had some people ask him how he did it.
Creative Advantage was the first title for his book. Jeff learned the Michelangelo was the richest artist of the Renaissance and died with a worth of 50 million. So he realized you don’t have to sell out or starve as an artist.
Jeff began finding other people, regular people, that were living off their creativity as well. As he was writing, he was trying to put the pieces together. A friend read his book and told him he more or less had two books; one about creativity, which was kind of boring, and the other is about how not to be a starving artist, and that was more interesting.
He told him that that is a book people need to read. The friend said it was almost like he was trying to convey real artists don’t starve. That was when he had the epiphany and the new title of the book, Real Artists Don’t Starve.
So he says to start with whatever you think the book is about. Madeleine L’engle says, “write the book that wants to be written.”. Throughout the process, you are becoming more precise about what you want to say than when you began.
The working title may work, but for a lot of people, it changes. For example, Tim Farris called the Four Hour Work Week, Drug Dealing For Fun and Profit to begin with. It was controversial, but it wasn’t the essence of the book he was going for.
The belief that you have to work more to get more, but you can work less and get more was what he was going for.
Dustin chose to go a more straightforward route and name his book How to Quit Your Job With Rental Properties. His second book was a little more creative being called Successfully Unemployed.
He was still working but had 30+ properties, so he wondered why he was still working because it was a waste of time. He wanted to write a book about the big lessons he learned in the process, and people were intrigued by the title.
Jeff thinks there has ever been an easier time to make money and get your content out as an artist.
What to Do When You Are Ready to Publish
Jeff supports independent publishing. Now people have all the tools that a traditional publisher has at their disposal. You can design the book with the same software as actual publishers.
Some people Jeff knows will self publish a book and then get hired by a publisher. Many people are freelancing, and many publishing companies aren’t employing an editor or a designer full time if they don’t need to.
Jeff has done both traditional and self-publishing, so he is not biased either way. Most authors he works with, unless they have a big platform or an excellent idea where working with a publisher would help the book’s success, he encourages them to self publish.
It used to be that if you self-published, you wouldn’t be able to get on with a traditional publisher later. It was taboo, and there was a stigma surrounding it. Now that is not true. People like Jeff, who self publish, will partner with a traditional publisher to reach or distribute their book.
There are two instances where Jeff thinks it’s beneficial to work with a publisher:
#1: Suppose they give you a bunch of money upfront. An example is they offer $500,000 in advance or working the next 20 years, making that off a self-published book. Jeff said he would take the upfront money and then invest in rental properties and live off that.
#2: They have some excellent distribution deal that will get the book in front of many people. They would have the capability to bring you to an audience you otherwise would not have access to. A book like Atomic Habits by James Clear sold a million copies and generated interest in other things he has going on.
The traditional publishing route brought many people to his website, speaking opportunities, and online courses. Jeff says that it is crucial to understand it as traditional publishers will put you in different places and even sell internationally.
Publishers can translate a book into many other languages and distribute it far and wide, which would be hard to do alone. Jeff also says to remember; you can make a lot of money from these companies’ royalties.
Pro Tip: Never Pay A Publisher To Publish Your Book
At that point, you would benefit from self-publishing. A useful reference for this is APE, Guy Kawasaki. He says for about a $3,000 investment. You can successfully self-publish a great book.
Another great tool is Amazon’s KDP is a great way for people to get started for those who don’t have a huge following or a ton of email subscribers.
Scaling the Business
It is essential to decide what kind of writer you want to be. Jeff says there are three different kinds of writers:
#1: The Working Writer
The answer is to write more books. They make a few hundred bucks a month, like investing, feeding the book wheel. Eventually, they create enough books where they can make a great living.
This is a revolution for creative writers. A good route if you can write fast. Another idea in this category is a book group where you have a team of writers and become a little book factory writing and publishing together.
#2: The Authorpreneur
Like Jeff or Grant Balwin, they write a book every few years and have a handful of other things going on like courses, products that end up being 50-80% of their total revenue.
#3: The Thought Leaders
Writers like Brene Brown, Malcolm Gladwell. They sell many books and get big book deals but are also going out and speaking or maybe doing some consulting.
This author type has big ideas that impact the culture of the world. They usually have some other things to sell, which is generally their time. They may have books come out every 4-5 years, and the rest of the time is speaking and consulting.
Dustin is an Authorpreneur. At one point, he was sitting around and wanted to do things. He had people asking him how to do these things that he was doing.
He started the podcast to get the information out as far and wide as possible. He likes that it just ends up helping more and more people. Dustin began to realize how influential he is by helping people get out of where they are and into where they want to be.
Jeff doesn’t just think that everyone should write a book but if they have an idea burning inside them, or something obvious to you and not others, then write it. He believes then it is something you can’t not do.
Jeff likes that Dustin’s podcast permits people to do what they usually wouldn’t think they can do and make a living. It has never been easier to do this stuff. Our Grandparents could not do this, so we are in a time of privilege, opportunity, and responsibility.
If you have a burning desire to teach people, you have an obligation to teach the world what you have to offer because people may need it. Jeff has met many people who just say they need to get a job, and that is great if that’s what you want to do.
Now is the time, and maybe the opportunity won’t last forever. Maybe our kids won’t have the same opportunities. You just never know, so you have to take our current opportunities seriously.
Jeff Publishes a Book With Grant Baldwin
Dustin has had Jeff on the podcast before, and he is excited to have him back now with his name on a book with someone who is pretty well-known, Grant Baldwin.
Grant is a good friend of Jeff and Dustin. A while back, a publisher called Jeff and asked if he knew of anyone with whom they should write a book and recommended Grant.
Grant had a podcast and a coaching website dedicated to teaching people how to become successful speakers, but he needed a book!
Grant was not immediately interested unless Jeff wrote the book for him. He was joking, asking Jeff to do that for him, but it became an interesting idea to Jeff. He got excited about it and has a personal rule to say yes to things that scare him a little.
Everything that Jeff has done has been because he says yes to something that he typically wouldn’t do or has never done. So they did it. He went to the publisher and said the book would be like an interview with Grant, and Jeff would interview Grant’s top clients and get stories or anecdotes to use throughout the book.
They would talk together, bring the stories, and share theories. Jeff says it was a long but great two-year process, and now they have a book. Jeff thinks this is the book about being successful.
There are many books about speaking, but not so many about how to be a speaker, much less being successful at it. It is an authoritative book about understanding all of the business elements of being a part-time or full-time public speaker.
While writing his book, Dustin realized that you couldn’t just buy one property and call yourself an investor with real estate investing.
You have to build your business first. So with his book and his courses, he teaches his students that building the business first is essential.
He has found that they are the ones he buys out for those who don’t because they get fed up with the issues without building the business first.
Successfully Unemployed Rapid Fire Round
What Jeff Does to Give Back And Serve Others
Jeff believes his business itself is inherently helpful. He is employing people and creating experiences and content that make people’s lives better. They are paying him for it too, which is also wonderful for him.
Jeff is helping the world be a better place by being successfully unemployed and having a business that exists to serve other people and help creative people succeed.
In addition to that, Jeff has partnered with multiple nonprofits over the years, where they have been working on building projects in Africa. Currently, they are working in a school. Sometimes, Jeff even volunteers at his kids’ school for school dances.
Jeff feels like in America; people have guilt about success like we have to give back. For example, it is hard to decide what has given society more, Amazon or Jeff Bezos’s philanthropy foundation.
The thing is that they are both great. Dustin agrees that Bezos wouldn’t have philanthropic contributions without Amazon, who employs a lot of people.
Jeff thinks that the idea that we are giving back implies that we have taken in the first place, which isn’t true. Instead, we should keep it flowing and keep giving.
Jeff does this by employing people, his charitable donations, and remaining in the business of helping creative people succeed.
The most successful companies, the best companies, are the ones that serve and look to serve, Dustin believes. To make things better for other people and solving problems is what makes great businesses.
A Piece of Advice From Jeff Goins
A former boss or Jeff’s would always say that before you pursue your dreams, serve someone else’s dream first. Jeff says to try to first act as an apprentice.
If you are interested in being a real estate investor, go work for Dustin. Volunteer or do admin for him, ask him to hire you as manager of some of his units. You can see up close and personal what it would be like and get guidance from his years of investing experience.
Another idea is before you be a writer, help edit somebody’s book, or before you become a full-time musician, be a roadie. See what the job is like and then what the art is like. The art of writing is the writing of the book.
The job of writing a book is checking email, remembering interviews, flying somewhere to speak, or similar tasks. There are so many other things associated with writing that you may not end up liking the job but loving the art.
Jeff says the best thing you can do is figure out what the job requires, work for someone who does it, and then decide if you would like to do that.
Dustin would pay $10,000 a year to Warren Buffet to work for him. He would do this simply for Warren’s knowledge, his connections, and his experience.
Even though it wouldn’t be much for Warren Buffet, Dustin would be so huge for all of the additional benefits of working with him.
Jeff Goins’ Advice to His Younger Self
Jeff would tell himself to trust his intuition but also to test it. One of the hardest parts growing up for Jeff was having immature ideas that he thought were ridiculous. They were real; he just didn’t know how to apply them.
There were so many things that he wanted to do, but he just started telling himself, no, or rather life said no. He got a job, put his head down, and did what was expected of him for seven years.
There were yearnings and desires to do more, but he didn’t know if he could trust that feeling. So when he turned 30, he quit his job and created his business. He waited too long for some people, and for some people, he didn’t wait long enough.
He was just glad he did not wait any longer than he did. Since then, he has had to learn how to trust himself and realize the things he wants are usually good, good for himself, and good for others.
He says that just because you may trust yourself doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t test yourself. Jeff says to try, experiment, and dip your toes in. He wishes he would have understood this better earlier that you can trust your intuition, but you also have to test it.
One App Jeff Uses Daily
As a writer, note-taking is essential to Jeff. From grocery lists to next blog posts to other book ideas, he writes it down. He uses Bear, an iOS app that syncs with his iPhone or tablet. He calls it a beautiful note-taking app, and he loves it.
The Non-Fiction Book Jeff Recommends
Jeffs loves books, and there are so many that he has already suggested and would suggest. He recommends The War of Art by Steven Pressfield.
Where to Find Jeff
Head over to his website goinswriter.com, his podcast and blogs are there also. Or IG, where he is most active. His handle is @jeffgoins and he responds to DMs.